A trip wouldn't be a trip without trying to use the power of mathematics and perks of dubious value to spin, spin, spin the overall results.
So, it's time for the Comp Accounting Spin!
I kept a spreadsheet of all the goodies I got on this trip. I really raked in the freeplay this time, and it was a shame that it didn't do more for me.
The best result from gaming the system was the Canadian dollar at par promo at the Downtown Grand, which I pretty much cornholed to within an inch of its life. How sweet was it to hit the Aces kick progressive on premiumized loonies?
As sweet as pure maple syrup, and lower in calories!
Here's the skinny - or the fat, really.
| Where | Comp | Amount |
| T.I. | Room 3 nights | $60.00 |
| $80.00 | ||
| $90.00 | ||
| Room tax 13% | $29.90 | |
| TI | Freeplay | $495.00 |
| DTG | Room 3 nights | $39.00 |
| $39.00 | ||
| $39.00 | ||
| Room tax 13% | $15.21 | |
| Resort fee | $68.00 | |
| Four Queens | Freeplay | $40.00 |
| Four Queens | Freeplay | $40.00 |
| Magnolias | Meal on points | $10.79 |
| Magnolias | Meal on points | $7.59 |
| DTG | CAD to US Bonus | $125.00 |
| DTG | CAD to US Bonus | $125.00 |
| DTG | CAD to US Bonus | $125.00 |
| DTG | points | $35.00 |
| The D | Freeplay | $5.00 |
| Magnolias | Meal on points | $10.79 |
| Binions | Meal on points | $10.00 |
| Tropicana | Comp | $180.00 |
| Tropicana | Freeplay | $15.00 |
| Nugget | Freeplay | $100.00 |
| Nugget | Visa Gift Card | $25.00 |
| Magnolias 29th | Taco Salad | $8.79 |
| Binions | Ribs | $15.00 |
| Binions | Burger | $8.69 |
| Nugget | Freeplay on pts | $35.00 |
| Nugget Room | 3 nights | $575.00 |
| Nugget - Bone Jumper | Meal on points | $17.49 |
| Man Bay Baking room | Tue | $138.00 |
| Wed | $176.00 | |
| Nugget points play | $40.00 | |
| Man Bay Resort Credit | $100.00 | |
| MILF Freeplay | $85.00 | |
| MILF point play | $30.00 | |
| MILF express comps | $19.44 | |
| Magnolia's Thu pizza | $10.39 | |
| DTG Freeplay | $15.00 | |
| Golden Nugget Freeplay | $165.00 | |
| Elco Breakfast | $15.75 | |
| Elco food comp w offer | $15.00 | |
| Elco Room | $170.92 | |
| Magnolias CTUG Fri | $8.79 | |
| Elco point play | $35.00 |
That's a lot of shorthand and numbers.
You want to know the real skinny?
The Norbert summary?
My comps, freeplay, and other assorted goodies came to a grand total of $3,493.54 US.
I showed this spreadsheet to Jimmy Poon and he said, "As your technical consultant and unqualified accountant, I advise you to rent a very fast car with no top, and to claim these comp amounts against the actual dollar losses for the purposes of making this trip palatable."
And just like that, $3,500 in losses disappeared in a puff of accounting.
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You would think that ole Flusher would have had enough enough of getting his purple velvet ass kicked up and down the strip.
You would think that ole Savvypants would be sick of losing money that could be used for all kinds of things other than being lost gambling.
And you'd be right.
And that's why I'm carefully considering the parameters for my next trip to Las Vegas.
I'm pondering the imponderables.Thinking the unthinkables. Pulling out the unpullable stops.
Could it be done? Should it be done? Would it even be fun?
A super cheap vacation wrapped in the mantle of some sort of pathetic concocted challenge would probably be more interesting to read about than to do
I haven't made up my mind yet, but you'll read about it here, that's for sure.
A super cheap vacation wrapped in the mantle of some sort of pathetic concocted challenge would probably be more interesting to read about than to do
I haven't made up my mind yet, but you'll read about it here, that's for sure.
Thank you for bringing us along your entire trip. I totally enjoyed every one of your posts. I'll be looking forward to your next installment.
ReplyDeleteThat's some "Savvy Savings" on the Las Vegas strip, plus who could vacation that long in beautiful loss vegas on The Man's dime. Perhaps, dare I say you eclipsed Jean Scott as the Queen of Comps?! One measly dollar Royal would have put you in positive territory. You sir are among the gambling comp savvy elite! One question how come no CET stays on your comp docket, even the old Funk could have kicked you two free Caesars nights on his degenerate friends and family mailers I get.
ReplyDeleteHeading to Vegas on Monday. Wish you were starting another epic journey so I could acquire a saavy Royal Flusher business card !
ReplyDeleteKevin Lewis just gave you some excellent advice. Once you get down you start to chase losses with triple play and dollar machines. Play the best pay tables and play quarters....and you will have fun without all the pressure.
ReplyDeleteHa,ha. Nice post/rant there Kevin Lewis, you seem like a super fun guy to hang out with. Not saying that you are wrong but not sure you are understanding how Flushie gets down. Keep Spinning those records DJ Flush.
ReplyDeleteI love all the posts from the guys who have "figured it out". Let's be honest this is all an illusion. Real gamblers play for the thrill of the win. Mathematically no matter how you slice it, you can never beat the house. Unless as Danny Ocean says, the perfect hand comes along and you bet big, and you take the house (and never gamble again - Funk added).
ReplyDeleteComps are there to make us feel better and give the illusion of a low cost Vegas experience, a marketing tool, a canard, a charade. In my neck to the woods the real value play is to stay home with my 99% paytables, drive to local casino, and enjoy my comp meals at home. Better yet I could play the horses and get anywhere from even money to 5 to one on low risk win bets at the track. There is no 'TRUE' way to play in Vegas to get ahead of the game. It's purely an entertainment and everyone has their own form of enjoyment. I appreciate RoyalFlusher's time to break down his experience and create another form of online entertainment for us. No need to give him crap over his methods or style of play.
Your leaving out normal short term variance which even the best paying VP slots are subject too. Your solution counts on long term variance, which includes the occasional Royal. I have experienced first hand 9/6 jacks cold streaks with no pairs or better in 20+ hands. Short term variance can and will beat you if play enough trips, unless you have a committed bankroll to outplay those cold streaks which come along for all gamblers.
DeleteAre you also fully aware that you have a condescending prickish attitude? I could try and explain this concept to you but you probably would just ignore it cuz it means you would have to consider a point of view that wasnt your own. Just saying.
DeleteCorrect, short term variance will not beat you over the long haul, but what is that period exactly? Long term to me is measured over say a year of play. Short term can be defined as play per gaming day. Some people measure it by gaming session.
DeleteDo we say its the average number of hands to a Royal Flush 40K+?? I am using it in the context of the commenter who said RF could come ahead by playing full play machines and erode say a $50 dollar a day expense and avoid his losses.
In other words you could beat the house playing near FP .25 cent VP with an advantage play formula. My point wa that short term variance will impact what hands you are dealt in a session, is a realty. The logic you can consistently win on a Vegas trip is flawed. Yes you will have some trips where you come out ahead, (multiple royals) but you will also have trips where you will get your ass handed to you. Statistically speaking those trips you hit Royals, you should really stop playing since you finally trued up your losses and reached positive pay. Dedicated VP players know the math on near full pay machines only work long term and only if you get those expected Royals. Lets not forget the fact most people play multiple VP machines. What happens when your play is spread out over multiple machines over your trip, this too has an effect on variance. So back to my main point. There is no winning formula in Vegas to beat the house. You can slow your losses by better paying machines, you can end your gaming session or extend your bankroll on a given day to avoid risk of ruin for trip. I have played it both ways on FP and crappy paytables. Guess what crappy payable machines have resulted in more Royals for me the past 4 years. The better paytables VP machines only let me play longer hoping for that Royal to come along and even out the odds. Suprise, the math has worked negative for me with near perfect play. Go figure.
A more specific illustration of what you are saying Funk is that my coin in for the trip was roughly $100K. My loss was 5%. I played a lot of 99% games and some a point or two lower. Even if the average paytable was 97% payback I was still 2% off of that. That's two grand. I put it down to variance, or bad luck. I'm 5 or 6 cycles into 4-to-a-Royal draws now with 0 Royals from 4. That's a big part of it right there.
DeleteYes, but the 8/5 CWs are much better looking than the 9/6 ones. ;)
DeleteWell, I for one am eagerly looking forward to reading even more extreme degenerate savviness however it happens. Whether that be full pay or otherwise. When will it happen ?
ReplyDeleteThis is a really interesting discussion. Kevin, I appreciate the time you've taken to explain your point of view.
ReplyDeleteAs a starting point, I do not view free play the same as cash. Really, they are not the same. Cash can be used anywhere, for anything, and free play can be used for only one thing.
Freeplay has no value unless it is played.
The question in my mind, what is the value of that freeplay.
Clearly, Kevin, you are very interested in maintaining a positive edge on your play. And for tax reasons, it makes a lot of sense to count a $100 freeplay loss as a loss, period.
The thing is, I am not an advantage player, nor do I have an interest in being one. A lot of the value I get out of my play is in the comps. In some cases, I am sure that I come out positive, and the comps and freeplay and cashback are the reason why.
I am thinking about doing a post or article about freeplay and how to account for it, because there are many ways of conceptualizing it.
Kevin, don't think that we don't 'get it' - we do. And I do understand the difference between variance and EV.
Keep in mind that for the most part, I do play full pay machines, and even if I give up a percent, that's $1000 on the $100K coin in I did last trip. I lost $5K - that's due to a lot more than lousy paytables.
I'm willing to give up a percent or a percent and a half to stay at the Nugget. Why? Because I like it there. My point is - we clearly have very different goals. So don't worry to much if my behavior doesn't lead to the goals that YOU find important. Mine are different.
I suppose I could learn DB if I wanted to, but I just don't want to! I've tried and for some reason that game is beyond me.
I appreciate the joy you get from working the system your way. I do have that streak in me, but I'm not willing to go whole hog and stay at places I'm not that interested in just because they have slightly better games. To each their own, right.
Maybe this will change in the future, but for now, I'm just a savvy degenerate tourist.
I think we are at a standstill in the discussion because you insist on viewing my decisions through your value set.
DeleteRegarding the free play, I have to heartily disagree. It is not equivalent to cash. It simply isn't. Free play has no value until the moment it is played.
If I play $100 free play on a 99% machine, there is no guarantee whatsoever that I will get $99 out of it. In the long, long, long term, I may approach that value on average. But there is risk associated with the playing.
If I offer someone the choice of $100 cash money, or $100 freeplay, with the proviso that they must play it through a machine and can't cash anything until the $100 is played, which do you think they would take?
The answer is $100 cash. Its present value is higher than the freeplay because of the uncertainty associated with the freeplay proposition.
Regarding where I choose to stay etc. I think we'll just have to leave that for now. You seem pretty set in your beliefs about what has value and what doesn't. Yes I could play at the Four Queens - but I hate those shoulder bruising uprights. And I hate the stink in there. How much $$ is that worth? :)
I appreciate how you do Vegas, and that works for you. I do it a different way and it works for me in the long run.
For what its worth, the next trip will look extremely different from this one, perhaps it will be more in keeping with your views on how to approach a gambling trip.
I have no interest in being an advantage player either. If I lived in Vegas that might change for me but when on vacation, I don't want to have to think about it that much as I gamble for entertainment.
ReplyDeleteI can also tell you I hate short pay games but I can also tell you that I have had success on 8/5 DDB and gambling nightmares on 9/6 DDB. I also, like Flusher, like to stay at nice places for "Free" and am willing to give up a little to get it.
Man, you got $495 freeplay at TI? How?
ReplyDeleteThe max I got was $40.
That was the total of everything I got over the three days. I was offered $250 up front, got 2nd in a tournament for more freeplay, won some in the treasure hunt game they have, and got some for points earned. The grand total was $495.
DeleteI'm not publishing further comments about which games I play, how to value freeplay, etc. I am tired of being lectured at. If you feel that strongly about it, why not start your own blog on how to do Vegas properly? Thanks for the input.
ReplyDelete